Post by TAB on Jun 13, 2012 13:30:34 GMT -7
Hey everyone,
So, there's been some conflict on the facebook event listing regarding ableist language in the initial call-out, and we're trying to work together to see what can be done to change it for the better. Here's what went down in the discussion so far:
Erik Safewright: "Due to natural circumstances and the lay of the land (rocky trails on steep hills, etc.), ableism and “disability” may hinder accessibility for some to the inner reaches of the gathering, including the hot springs. This is a reality of the natural world that is beyond our ability or desire to alter or control."<--That's some fucked up shit right there. You spend like 8 paragraphs detailing your preparations for hiding genitalia... then offer two sentences to say "the world ain't flat, if you're crippled then you're fuct, because we're ableists and thus you've been disabled."
Erik Safewright: "...even those writers who have specifically examined oppression have internalised the dominant, individualised world view of disability and have failed to conceptualise it as social oppression." -- (Oliver, Understanding Disability, p. 133)
Gimps R Us: I first talked to 'them' about this 3 years ago. The fact is that many are simply prejudiced biased, and did and do discriminate in their actions and beliefs.
If you show up let me and mine know and we'll create a p.rrotest line with you, block their road in, dump their water and in general create little havoc for some punks with clean kitchens. We will create a protest in the woods. College Kids! I've got a disability rights protest arrest record dating back a few dcades. Lets do 'em!!
Free Our People - ADAPT - Our Homes Not Nursing Homes
Yes it's fucked up shit. The ableist language that continues is bullshit crap. They conflate, in their prejudice and discriminiation, people with mobility issues (pregnant women, older people, rollers amputees, young children) and slap it all into ableist rhetorical shit.
Hey Eric, You wanna FREAK 'em - just for fun... Shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 of us. :-)
Tom, in Denver
Ab Irato: that part should have actually been edited out of this version, sorry. we're no longer at the site with the hill and hot springs. i will change it. regardless, that certainly isn't how we intended the statement, and if that's how it came across, then naturally it needs to be worked on. that said, i would love to hear your suggestions regarding accessibility to wilderness-oriented events such as this one. it's a discussion i take seriously and think needs to be had. we're certainly willing to help hoof folx' gear into the site, etc., and strive for maximum accessibility, but without having to twist it into the harsh statement that you did, what *are* we to do regarding land bases that make accessibility for those of differing levels of abilities an issue?
Ab Irato: also, Tom, i'm not sure why you're talking to and about people you otherwise call friends that way. our wording has always been an open learning process, and while we've made many mistakes over the years and hopefully learned from them, when you're talking about a community that you're fully empowered to influence the language of, calling for confrontation with your supposed comrades is simply counter-revolutionary and horizontally hostile. We are people you know and claim to love, and have shared many circles and fires with. We do not understand your hostility, even if we're trying to figure out how to better state that trails in the wilderness are difficult and we must say something about that in our texts lest we mislead people into thinking that a wilderness area will be as accessible as we'd like it to be, etc.
so what we'd like from everyone is a bit of collective process about how to appropriately word a disclaimer about the lay of the land. we don't want anything we say or write to be fucked up, unintentional or not, so let's work together and create something we can all live and work with.
Ab Irato: okay, i am tweaking things a bit, but it may still be fucked up, so bare with me here. Here's where i'm at so far (please suggest how to make it appropriate and not fucked up):
"The WRFF organzers' collective recognizes the dynamics of accessibility and ableism as a form of societal oppression in our culture, and strive to select sites with maximum accessibility, considering the context of an event located in forest and wilderness areas. Due to natural circumstances and the lay of the land (rocky trails on steep hills, etc.), ableism and “disability” may hinder accessibility for some to the inner reaches of the gathering. This is a reality of the natural world that is beyond our ability or desire to alter or control. We will, however, make very effort to help folx of differing abilities get their gear into the woods. Please contact us or ask an event organizers if you or someone in your group needs assistance hauling gear. Together as a community we're able to do anything!"
Ab Irato: ^i realize simply offering assistance doesn't solve the issues. but we're here in genuine openness asking for some semantic guidance regarding this language.
---
Do others have thoughts, comments, criticisms, critiques, suggestions, etc. that they'd like to throw our way regarding dynamics of ableism and this language? Thanks!
---
(captcha: "cool heads prevail")
So, there's been some conflict on the facebook event listing regarding ableist language in the initial call-out, and we're trying to work together to see what can be done to change it for the better. Here's what went down in the discussion so far:
Erik Safewright: "Due to natural circumstances and the lay of the land (rocky trails on steep hills, etc.), ableism and “disability” may hinder accessibility for some to the inner reaches of the gathering, including the hot springs. This is a reality of the natural world that is beyond our ability or desire to alter or control."<--That's some fucked up shit right there. You spend like 8 paragraphs detailing your preparations for hiding genitalia... then offer two sentences to say "the world ain't flat, if you're crippled then you're fuct, because we're ableists and thus you've been disabled."
Erik Safewright: "...even those writers who have specifically examined oppression have internalised the dominant, individualised world view of disability and have failed to conceptualise it as social oppression." -- (Oliver, Understanding Disability, p. 133)
Gimps R Us: I first talked to 'them' about this 3 years ago. The fact is that many are simply prejudiced biased, and did and do discriminate in their actions and beliefs.
If you show up let me and mine know and we'll create a p.rrotest line with you, block their road in, dump their water and in general create little havoc for some punks with clean kitchens. We will create a protest in the woods. College Kids! I've got a disability rights protest arrest record dating back a few dcades. Lets do 'em!!
Free Our People - ADAPT - Our Homes Not Nursing Homes
Yes it's fucked up shit. The ableist language that continues is bullshit crap. They conflate, in their prejudice and discriminiation, people with mobility issues (pregnant women, older people, rollers amputees, young children) and slap it all into ableist rhetorical shit.
Hey Eric, You wanna FREAK 'em - just for fun... Shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 of us. :-)
Tom, in Denver
Ab Irato: that part should have actually been edited out of this version, sorry. we're no longer at the site with the hill and hot springs. i will change it. regardless, that certainly isn't how we intended the statement, and if that's how it came across, then naturally it needs to be worked on. that said, i would love to hear your suggestions regarding accessibility to wilderness-oriented events such as this one. it's a discussion i take seriously and think needs to be had. we're certainly willing to help hoof folx' gear into the site, etc., and strive for maximum accessibility, but without having to twist it into the harsh statement that you did, what *are* we to do regarding land bases that make accessibility for those of differing levels of abilities an issue?
Ab Irato: also, Tom, i'm not sure why you're talking to and about people you otherwise call friends that way. our wording has always been an open learning process, and while we've made many mistakes over the years and hopefully learned from them, when you're talking about a community that you're fully empowered to influence the language of, calling for confrontation with your supposed comrades is simply counter-revolutionary and horizontally hostile. We are people you know and claim to love, and have shared many circles and fires with. We do not understand your hostility, even if we're trying to figure out how to better state that trails in the wilderness are difficult and we must say something about that in our texts lest we mislead people into thinking that a wilderness area will be as accessible as we'd like it to be, etc.
so what we'd like from everyone is a bit of collective process about how to appropriately word a disclaimer about the lay of the land. we don't want anything we say or write to be fucked up, unintentional or not, so let's work together and create something we can all live and work with.
Ab Irato: okay, i am tweaking things a bit, but it may still be fucked up, so bare with me here. Here's where i'm at so far (please suggest how to make it appropriate and not fucked up):
"The WRFF organzers' collective recognizes the dynamics of accessibility and ableism as a form of societal oppression in our culture, and strive to select sites with maximum accessibility, considering the context of an event located in forest and wilderness areas. Due to natural circumstances and the lay of the land (rocky trails on steep hills, etc.), ableism and “disability” may hinder accessibility for some to the inner reaches of the gathering. This is a reality of the natural world that is beyond our ability or desire to alter or control. We will, however, make very effort to help folx of differing abilities get their gear into the woods. Please contact us or ask an event organizers if you or someone in your group needs assistance hauling gear. Together as a community we're able to do anything!"
Ab Irato: ^i realize simply offering assistance doesn't solve the issues. but we're here in genuine openness asking for some semantic guidance regarding this language.
---
Do others have thoughts, comments, criticisms, critiques, suggestions, etc. that they'd like to throw our way regarding dynamics of ableism and this language? Thanks!
---
(captcha: "cool heads prevail")